Is the high anchor really the problem?

[Feral Donkey]

How in the world can you come anywhere close to that alignment if you anchor with the arrow right under your eye, or right up at your cheekbone, or higher?

If your head is shaped like a cerial bowl, anything is possible.

[cst]

I have had the benefit over the last year of shooting with some really phenominal shooters. Guys that won the Nationals (field) with recurves and compounds both. One of them still shoots for money. What I get out of shooting with these guys is a million little jewels of information that only cost me the effort of listening. They are a pretty good group of guys too, so listening is easy. What I have learned from them about how to get into good alignment and how to recognise proper back tension in the rhomboids is to start with your bow at your side and reach for your knee. Then raise your bow horizontal to the ground and when it is paralell rotate your wrist. This will leave your bowside shoulder down, and your elbow pointing straight back. When you draw the bow as you are coming to anchor you should be able to feel the muscles along your spine squeeze together. Your drawing arm should be paralell but not necessarily in a straight line with your bowarm and that will make your arrow fall inline automatically. If you have good line and good back tension, on the shot your bowarm will move forward (even if it was straight remember it is no longer being compressed by the drawweight) and your string arm's elbow will move back and to the side. Behind your head almost. The way you can practice feeling that squeeze in your rhomboids is to puff your chest out and pull your shoulders back. Almost like you were shrugging only to the rear instead of up.

Having said all of that, and having seen all the pictures online and reading the BEST program, the single best shooter I have ever seen has a very open stance. He could easily draw 28" if he were to stand in the classic blade/inline target shooters stance, but instead he opts to shoot almost like a pistol shooter and he only draws his bow 25". You could hang a 15# weight from his bowarm and it wouldn't move any on the shot. He kinda reminds me of Howard Hill in his stance.

[Jacko]

I just posted in another thread asking about alingment and bigger archers . Everything that has been pointed out in this thread has been an issue in my case and my form today reflects compromises and adaptations made to maintain my side of face anchor and barebow addiction . Trouble is even in years past when I was considerably fitter and more flexible than now I worked out I can not get into the alignment I could when I shot with an under chin anchor .

I have widely spaced cheekbones [13 year old daughter says a boofhead ] and tear strips off my nose or lip with a 3 under top finger anchor so I use asplit finger release middle finger anchor , some mates with the same issue put tape on their noses to save skin . I have had coaches point out that my skeletal structure and muscle mass will not allow the sort of alingment we are talking about here .

I used to be a powerlifter and rely on physical stregth to bluff my way through many things , including my bowarm . With this in mind I constantly working on more bone to bone support in my shooting as age weary's strength and muscle mass . There is nothing like bale work to constantly train your body into better shooting alignment and form .

regards Jacko

[Cutty]

Having said all of that, and having seen all the pictures online and reading the BEST program, the single best shooter I have ever seen has a very open stance. He could easily draw 28" if he were to stand in the classic blade/inline target shooters stance, but instead he opts to shoot almost like a pistol shooter and he only draws his bow 25". You could hang a 15# weight from his bowarm and it wouldn't move any on the shot. He kinda reminds me of Howard Hill in his stance.

Great point, Chris. I believe that's a whole 'nother way to "skin the cat." To go in the opposite direction, shorten up your draw and forget the dynamic release.

Jacko,

I too have a rather large melon, have done my share of powerlifting to train for football, and ain't exactly petite at 6'0" and 225 pounds, and with one surgically repaired shoulder, which will most assuredly be joined by a second in the near future.

[Cutty]

I wanted to link this great clip of Brady Ellison taken from the back, but couldn't find it again on Youtube. Here's another that shows the sort of alignment I'm talking about, though not as clearly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTR0lGuM ... re=related

[rwsbow]

An open stance engages the back muscles earlier as long as your alignment opens up your shoulders...it allows the muscles to begin contraction almost immediately..but it is still important to maintain the "drawline"..(bowhand,drawing hand, drawing elbow)..if they get too far out of line, flinching and the spazz's kick in!!!

I also think it depends on the persons physical makup as to whether a low anchor with the hands,elbow and shoulder all in the same heighth (plane) or a high anchor with a low bow shoulder is the most productive for that person. Having shot low anchor (under the chin)for many years and having the ability to not only have a solid anchor but at least 2 reference points to insure it is the same, I know I am more accurate at longer ranges with a target anchor.

But being I dont compete any more and my practice yardages are restricted to 37 yards (unless I stand out in the highway or on the railroad tracks) a high anchor with one reference point provides adequate consistency.But you can feel the difference in the muscles along the spine and trapezius muscles that different ones are being used...

Is one better than the other?...I think its what each person is comfortable and consistent with...just my opinion though!!

[cst]

JRW, those are the same people that say you cheat. I think I remember a picture of you and you are not the average everyday fatass with a recurve that Cutty was talking about. Is that the case?

[cst]

There you go. I think Pete was pointing this more towards people of a rounder build. Like my own 5'7" 220#. I got a fair bit of muscle on me, I use it to tote around all the fat.

[Cutty]

JRW, with a "32 draw and your obvious dedication and passion for this sport you are indeed in a class of your own. You are without a doubt in that top 10 %.

But that doesn't mean us "husky" folk can't make you tap out once we get inside that freakish reach. Your long limbs just give us extra leverage when we lock in that kimora.

[Gino Bruno]

pete-
i didn't read through the entire thread but i have to agree with you and have been noticing this myself in the last year or so. i started at the index at the corner of f my mouth and shot that way since i was 4. after switching hands, i also switched to middle at the corner of my mouth.... then went to 3 under and was creeping up until i was anchoring with my index finger on the orbital of my eye socket...... all that did was gave me shoulder problems. for the last 10 or so months, i have been shooting with my middle finger anchoring at the corner of my mouth and feeling it touch behind my eye-tooth...... as i have said, i have done bag/bale work for years and years but until i read tom's thread i don't think i was taking full advantage of it........ now, i feel all sorts of things like the fact that when i come to anchor, i am wanting to pull lower.......... when i shoot tons of arrows in a single sitting and my form starts falling off due to fatigue, the bale shows that i am consistently trying to pull with a lower anchor. if i switch to index behind the eye-tooth when i am this tired, there is new found power. i have been telling my buddy cote (and just told bill this the other day when we were shooting together) that after hunting season is over, that i may switch to index at the corner of my mouth because my back tension is so much better. can't do it now though because my mind is so calibrated for the middle finger anchor.... but i do feel that the index finger will improve my form even further due to better back tension. we have talked a good bit about athletics and you know that i was heavy into bodybuilding in my college days and still work out religiously so i am still fairly in tune to how my body works and can feel and isolate muscle contractions... everything seems to work better, or in more unison with a lower anchor for me. i also agree 100% about the seated rows analogy.......

btw, about 14 years ago, i was as wide as i am tall....... about 80lbs heavier........ yep, i'm a former fat kid . you ever see austin powers?....... i was the "mini-me" version of "fat bastard" and at 5'7", i still "weighed a metric ton."