Some "No Glass" Information....

[Hornseeker]

I am about to partake in some boo backed builds and maybe even some hickory backed builds. I've asked a few questions here already, but I am constantly wondering something or another... I"d like to hear tips from some of you guys that have done this alot. I know you are out there...

Is there any reason to use Smooth ON instead of Urac?

What woods can I use besides ipe and osage?? Purple heart? Yellow Heart? Bubinga? Jarra? Now..I know I could use ANY wood... but I am asking...what are THE BEST WOODS?

Will a hickory backed bow perform anywhere near a boo backed bow?

I assume a mild D/R is about best? I have shot some that were only reflexed that seemed great though!

How short can you go with a boo backed ipe or osage and still get a reliable, 28" draw bow?

How thick/thin do you need to keep that boo...for an avg. draw weight bow?

How thick should a hickory backing strip be?

Do you keep the limbs a rectangular cross section or round out the belly? Trap?

I want pics too! You got any pics of your builds? Ideas?

Thanks much, I'm gonna sticky this so it doesn't get lost for a while....

[Sixby]

purpleheart, ipe, osage and yew all work great. Remember to use the woods with best tension on the back and best compression on the belly.I kind of like stacking them in order through the bow . I broke my first eight bows. usually in final tillering. I would come in the house and my wife would say Oh No you broke another bow. Its a learning process and evidently I am a slow learner. However I had no help or input at that time and the only bow I had built was a yew self bow which came out great. I notice a lot of guys just using boo and osage. I have a friend that just brought one of those over and it was really a great bow.

[Sulphur]

osage, ipe are always great. Jatoba or brazilian cherry is often overlooked, but makes an awesome bow as well. Purpleheart may break your heart, why use yellowheart when you have osage.

[Apex Predator]

I'm very partial to osage and ipe opposite bamboo. I get my boo as thin as possible. Usually a knife edge between the nodes if I can. The boo is so strong in tension, it will crush most belly woods. I would keep my hickory backs around 1/8" thick. I'll post some photos from work. My confuser here at home is struggling right now!

[Feral Donkey]

I know a lot of guys use Black Locust too. There's a bunch of it around here too.

[RandyM]

I've done a handful of Hickory backed hard maple. Hardmaple is pretty stong compression wise. I blew up most of them in final tillering (near the fades).
Ernie...do you want to use Urac? I have a unopened container in the fridge the last 2 years if ya want it. I cant see me using it this winter if your interested.

[Hornseeker]

Yeah...I'd use it Randy...

Hey...I am going to be hunting the Bridgers for a buck over the next few weeks...maybe I can stop by and pick it up??? By the way...you know where any big bucks hang out in the Bridgers???

[MOUNTER]

I've seen a couple hickory backed red cedars that shot sweet and were absolutly beautiful!

[Jon in Montana]

I really like a R/D design in a bow, but I have to say that for an all wood bow I lean more towards a straight or very mild R/D profile. I think part of it is that I view all wood bows as something that have continued for generations. Granted, technology has changed, but I don't remember seeing the indians using plywood forms! The did use logs and cordage to induce reflex and recurve, but nothing like the extreme designs we have for our glass bows.

Question - are you going to make multiple-lam-glued-up bows, or more of just a backed-bow? (meaning one solid piece of core wood, with a hickory or boo backing). Grain orientation is much more critical for a self or backed bow. For lam bows, the most crucial grain orientation is the back and belly wood. The core lams are not as crucial, but it's still best to have great grain throughout.

First off... it seems like I have put more time into researching all wood bows than actually building them, so some of this is passed-on info, but not first hand experience. Anyone please chime in to correct me if this is wrong. I haven't been working with all woods bows lately, so this might be a little rusty...

It seems like most all-wood bows I see are between 62" and 68" - depending on draw length and bow weight. As an example let's say Hickory backed walnut - You may be able to hit 45# with a 62" bow, but you have to go to 66" to hit 60#. A little more wood is needed to handle the added stress.

There are some things to consider when mixing wood species.
- Walnut, Purpleheart, and Jatoba (brazillian cherry) are great in compression, but somewhat brittle. They are "fat-bow" woods. They do better with a wide, thin limb. Too thick and they will crack pretty quick. By wide I mean 1 3/4" or wider. I've seen a few Hickory backed Purpleheart and Hickory backed Walnut that were 3" wide at the fades, pyramid tapered to about 3/4" nocks.
- Osage and hickory are both great in compression and tension. Usually they are 1 1/2" to 2" wide at fades, with a little deeper core. Juniper bows are usually about that wide, too.
- Ipe and yew are both in the "skinny bow" category. 1" wide is pretty much max that you usually find.
- As a backing, Bamboo and hickory can be used on basically any width bow. A 1" wide, boo backed Ipe can have incredible performance. Most backings I've seen were right at 3/16", reguardless of bow width. Some have been 1/4", some have been 1/8", but right between is what I've seen most.

Sulphur mentioned Jatoba (brazillian cherry) often being overlooked. Black Cherry is often overlooked, too. It is absolutely great for compression, but it does take a lot more set than many other woods.

Yellowheart & osage - Osage is king in the wood bow world. The drawback is that it darkens with age. The only advantage yellowheart has is that it stays yellow.

Sorry about getting long winded. I'll try to wrap it up.....

I'm guessing you know this, but one other thing that is TOTALLY different that glass lam bows - an all wood bow should never be pulled past the tillered draw length, and never pulled past the desired finished weight. For instance, if you want a 45#@28 bow, and after initial profiling you draw it to 22" and hit 45#, then you need to stop and take off some wood to lower the weight. DON'T pull it down to 62@28 and then work the weight down to 45. It will never perform as well as a properly tillered 45@28 bow.

Unlike glass, you can't tiller a wood bow out to 30" and sell it at any draw length. (OK- I know we shouldn't do that with glass either, but we can and it's no problem). A bow tillered 45@28 bow is NOT the same as a 48@29 bow. If it's tillered to 45@28, then it should NEVER be pulled past that point. Pulling it past the tillered point will decrease performance and weaken the bow - leading to potential breakage.

Also when tillering - the limbs need to be exercised ONE INCH AT A TIME! This is not like a glass bow. I've taken glass bows right from profiling/trapping, string it, and go full draw. You CAN'T do that with all wood. After profiling, you need to use a long string to pull the limbs 1". Do that 50 times. Then pull it 2" 50 times..... Every 1" of draw must be "exercised" 50 times before being pulled another inch.

OK. I'm gonna stop for now. I'll let someone else throw something out....

[jwillis]

Sam Harper's build along...
http://poorfolkbows.com/ipe1.htm